Episode 30: No Pictures, Some Text (Orks vs. Imperium 2000 Points) [No Pictures, Super Rambly]

Hey guys, I got in a game today that I wanted to talk a bit about. I'm not going to do a full Battle Report for it since it was kind of a bad game, not bad in unfun or one-sided, it was just super sloppy. My opponent was playing his first 8th Edition game and I forgot my Movement Trays at home so things were not off to a good start.

I took a variant on my Green Tide list, dropping all the Weirdboys and the Trukk (save one Psyker), instead picking up more support elements. Here's the quick and dirty:

Zardsnark
Warboss on Bike w/ Big Choppa and Kombi-Rokkit
Big Mek on Bike w/ KFF and Rokkit
Big Mek w/ KFF, Rokkit, and Grot
Painboy w/ PK and Grot
Grotsnik
Weirdboy
6x 30 Boyz w/ 3 Rokkits and Big Choppa Nob (5 Choppas, 1 Shoota)

I think is the best Green Tide list I can build at the moment. The Rokkits are a great inclusion as they give me some game against Transport Spam, Flier Spam, and so on. Smite will just not do it, a canny player will never fall for it. Zardsnark is Forge World model recommended to me by a reader, he's incredibly good for the minor point increase over a normal PK Warboss on Bike and really helps out with Vehicles.

I went up against a weird Imperium list, here's a super quick rundown:

Inquisitor w/ Needle Pistol and Null Rod
3x Acolytes w/ Needle Pistols
3x Demonhosts
Immolator w/ Twin Heavy Flamers

10 Sisters w/ Flamer and Heavy Flamer, Imagifier
Rhino

8 Assault Terminators, 3 TH/SS, 5 LC
Land Raider Crusader
Emperor's Champion

Chaplain w/ Jump Pack

Sniper Assassin
Skull Faced Assassin
Stealthy Assassin

20 Crusaders, even split, w/ 1 PF and 1 PA

3 Penitent Engines

This is a pretty fluffy fun list, we ended up playing Kill Points since he didn't want to play The Relic. I'm not going to get too much into the game, I ended up winning as we called it with him having the Chaplain, the Inquisitor, the Emperor's Champion, a Rhino, 6 Sisters, and the Sniper Assassin versus a Warboss, a Big Mek on Bike, two full Boyz squads, two half full Boyz squad, and an almost empty Boyz squad. This was also heading into my Turn 4, so I'm likely to nearly table him.

Some highlights were the Land Raider Crusader holding up 30 Boyz for two full round when it only had four Wounds left, the Emperor's Champion killing my Warlord and Zardsnark, and a huge combat in the middle which started on Turn 2 and didn't end, involving 4 Boyz units, a Weirdboy, a Painboy, the Crusaders, the Land Raider, the Terminators, the Emperor's Champion, and Zardsnark.

While the game was a pretty average game, I did learn some things of importance:

Rokkits Are Good
I killed two Penitent Engines, put 6 Wounds on the Land Raider, killed a few Sisters of Battle/Crusaders, and that was all in two turns. Rokkits are worth the cost and will really help me deal with Rhinos, Razorbacks, and general Tanks where I can live without killing them but I need to drop their BS. They also give my units something to do early game, so I can either Advance or be a little slower and shoot.

Shootas Are Great
I'm going to bump to two units of Shootas. Typically the one I have if my Da Jump target but having another one leaves me with a unit in the back that can contribute. I almost always have a unit that does nothing in the game because they can't get in, this would let me do some work with them.

KFF + Painboys Are Great
I could see the disappointment on my opponent's face when he'd unload the Crusader and kill like five Boyz. It's really easy to position the Boyz sqauds so they each have a KFF, a Painboy, and a Warboss and I can split the army easily. Painboys also give me badly needed Powerklaws, Grotsniks is particularly good, and I could have opened the Land Raider much earlier this game if I focused it properly.

Zardsnark Is Good
For barely more than a regular Warboss he's pretty good. I wish he didn't have Big Shootas since they're literally useless compared to Dakka Guns for me but his five, 2+ Powerklaw attacks are amazing. He'll definitely be my go to can opener and his threat range is absolutely insane. I could have used him much more effectively this game, he put five Wounds on the Crusader then died, instead he should have been terrorizing the Sisters and more backline stuff.

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I think Green Tide is the best Ork build, as I always have. I've seen Kan Walls, Mork/Gorkanaut spam, Mechanized, Jump Pack spam, it all has too many weaknesses. Green Tides loses to the truly Tier 1 lists, Stormraven spam, Conscript spam, probably Tau Commander spam (notice a theme?) but it's a super viable army. I've given up even trying to beat Stormravens, they're the best thing in the game until the meta pushes them out. Ironically a meta where Stormravens are the best would be great for my list since people will load up on Lascannons and other big guns which do nothing to me.

Anyways, sorry for the super truncated and rambling Battle Report. I played incredibly sloppy as did my opponent, I just didn't have my head in the game. It would have been a complete blowout if I played better, I threw Zardsnark away, didn't get Grotsnik into much, wasted so many turns fighting the Land Raider and Immolator. Oh well, all lessons for the future. Hopefully I can do better this week in other games.

8 comments:

  1. Maybe I'm missing something why is two big shoota worse then then two Dakka guns?
    Both are assault 3 str5 ap0 dam1. Except the big shootas are 36" not 18".

    Also why didn't you just make zhardsnark your warlord and give him the +1 atk trait? 6 atks should be able to take out most characters he atks as his threat range is huge and he will get to atk first. Also more atks give you a better chance at rolling that 6 for an extra mortal wound.

    Other than that I think your lists and reports are spot on which units work this edition. Spite spam to a degree(2-3 wierdboys), boy spam (5-6 30boy squads), hidden rokkits in boy squads, warboss on bikes (zhardsnark), kff bubble wrap to protect vs shooty armies (either big meks, or meka dread), I still like stormboys as well but with multiple units w nobs w BC and zagstrukk which makes them fearless)

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    1. Oh I've seen the stormraven winning list and I have no idea how orks will handle that. Even with lots of spite spamming wierdboys and msu stormboys w zagstrukk that can assault them. They put out tremendous amounts of anti infantry shots and are brutal to take down. Toughness 7, 3+ save, -1 to hit vs shooting, 14 wounds and fly. You are not shooting or assaulting this with boy squads.

      Take 4 unit of 5 stormboys w nob w bc each and zagstrukk. This is 12x str7 ap-1 atks that do 2dam and 2x str8 ap-3 atks that do d3 dam. And 52x str4-6 ap0 dam1 atks. That can theoretically take down a storm raven however in practice a stormravens overwatch will kill those msu stormboys even w fearless.

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    2. I do like grotsnik over a basic painboy he has so many extra rules for only 4pts more than a painboy w grot. Easily overlooked rules are his cybork 5+ fnp stacks with his doc tools which gives another 6+ fnp every time he takes a wound. His special rule which is easily overlooked as a detriment is really a buff that allows him to charge wo a warlord near him or allows to fallback from assault and then immediately charge again. And even though he's a deathskull he's the only painboy that works on every Ork clan. All minor buffs but along with his 4+ sv, 2+ ws, toughness 5, ld8 makes him an easy choice a painboy.

      Also I think you should try ghaz on a boy horde list he is basically an army wide warpath AoE and a super resilient warlord w a klaw just as good as zhardsnark however he's not for every list as he cost as much as 2 warlords and is as slow as any boy on foot. But he is decent and fluffy. Personally I think zharsnark is better because he's cheaper less resilient no buff to your army but brings his klaw much faster into where u need it. He's great backing up your style of list w a dajump warpath boy shoota blob.

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    3. Thanks for all the comments, I'll tackle them in order:

      The +1 Attack Trait is valid, however it's only on the Charge and the KFF Mek is a way safere bet for denying "Slay the Warlord", my Warbosses rarely make it to end game. The 6++ is for Sniper defense, which is going to be a thing once the meta settles since IG are basically broken if you can't take out their Characters. This doesn't bode well for Orks, but that's another topic.

      Yeah, Orks cannot beat the 7 Stormraven list until the ITC publishes their progressive scoring missions. That list isn't viable in Maelstrom, they can't score anything. What it'll settle into is 2-4 Stormravens with support elements and that's something I can beat with Rokkits and numbers. I don't think Stormboyz are viable until they FAQ them, RAW they still die on 1's even with a Warboss nearby and that's awful. I don't think that will change so imho Stormboyz are not a viable flier counter, especially when you then start doing the math.

      I don't think Ghaz is any good, his aura is too small and too dependent and he's too many points. If he was a bigger threat I'd be into it but he's slow as hell and not THAT much more dangerous than another Warboss. I've seen lots of recommendations for him but I just disagree.

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  2. Played very similar Ork list today. My 2nd game of 8th. I think you're pretty spot on overall, and it's not only fairly competitive, it's extremely fun.

    I don't spam weird boyz, just 1-2 for jump / warpath so I think you're correct to go away from that.

    I'm not sold on the KFF mek or painboy. If you're just protecting boyz, just bring more boyz. If you already have the models painted fair enough, I think it's a wash though. Adds unnecessary positioning headache, and slows the game down with all those 5 / 6+ saves. Ugh just tell me how many are dead and get on with it.

    Stealing the Zhad ideas from you and commenter above though, that is gold, hadn't seen him yet.

    Great job bro keep it up!!!

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    1. Question: Is the bike on the warboss worth it? 32% more expensive for +1T, +1W and +9" move? I mean I get that it's good but I ran them on foot today and it was fine. Is the speed wasted when you don't want him closest model? Is it because in end game he can split off and threaten much more stuff?

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    2. Thanks for the comments!

      I understand the hesitancy on the KFF and Painboy, originally I thought "Just bring more Orks!" too, but there is a breakpoint with it. At certain numbers, and with certain coverage, they are more efficient than more dudes. They also take up less space and the Painboys get you a PK which helps. More Boyz have trouble getting into Combat against most armies so they're not valuable points, and a KFF Mek + Painboy is cheaper than 30 Boyz, even without Nob upgrades.

      Warboss on Bike is not only for the extra survivability, but he's an amazing Overwatch absorber and good for tying up things in the backlines. That's what I pay for, the speed. I've definitely done all foot and my opponents could keep their guns in the back nice and safe, now I can threaten them. He's also more resilient to Snipers which are absolutely going to be a thing.

      Thanks for the kind words. :]

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    3. OK that makes sense, definite value in soaking overwatch and threatening deeper units. I gotcha I'm sold. Sucks that I have some really nice paint jobs on my foot Warbosses!! Still good for fluffier games though =)

      Thanks again.

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